[simon]

Can anyone tell me the difference between Calcium Hydroxide and calcium chloride.
Can they both be used successfully to increase calcium levels in reef tanks?
big Si.

[ben]

http://www.advanceda...ly2002/chem.htm

http://www.advanceda...ar2002/chem.htm



hydroxide is what we call kalk and can be used all the time if needed.

chloride can be used for a calcium boost now and then, but shouldnt be used very often.

[wayne sarah kernow]

Hi
Sorry I cannot help!
Was wondering if you can overdose on calcium additive? Not really very clued up about the whole coral keeping stuff yet!
what is a safe level? what is a good growth level?

[ben]

good levels of calcium are around 400-450.

[Si Clark]

Not a big fan of kalk it can cause issues in future of tanks because it binds Phosphate to calcuim. Then if reefer doesn't maintain kalk addition the phosphate can leech back into system.

You should be using Calcium cholride and sodium bicarb in a balanced addition IMO

[ben]

i thought it was calcium chloride and calcium sulphate si, or is that the same thing?

i know sodium bicard is good for KH

[Crabbit]

One is calcium and hydrogen and the other is calcium and chloride the chloride helps it to be less reactive with oxygen and dissolve in a liquid. Calcium chloride can be used to increase calcium levels. Calcium hydroxide can be dose in small amount and is normally used to maintain calcium levels. Because calcium hydroxide is highly reactive with air or oxygen it is normally used in a reactor chamber and dosed with a auto top up or at night due to its high PH of the solution small amounts have to be dosed at one time. I can't remember the exact levels but calcium hydroxide becomes supper saturated and the calcium levels of the liquid no matter how much you add per liter or gallon, the calcium level can't be increased any more. But when watered down and remixed the unused calcium hydroxide is recharge back to supper saturation again. Thats why when the hydroxide and liquid mix in a reactor doesn't need to be added with more calcium hydroxide for a week. But when used without a reactor it reacts with oxygen making calcium carbonate and lowering the Ph and making the calcium value drop out of the solution.
You might want to consider using tropic marine bio-calcium you can get a 9kg bucket for £65 from the Internet and it buffers calcium and your KH and it also contains loads of minor trace elements and if you work it out against lap pack calcium chloride and sodium bi carbonate it works out cheaper and you get minor elements as well. But only if you bye a large bucket. Just to give you an idea i have run my 180g SPS system for over one year on one bucket of the stuff.

[Social D]

Yeh bio calc is great i use it to buffer my calcium levels as i run kalk day and night, But unless you have a few stony corals you might be better off using something like salifert calcium as a starting point if your new to calcium.

Tropic marin raises kh and if you dont have kh supping SPS you might have raised kh levels
which could reach over 14+ if you just have softs.

[Tim Parkinson]

ben, on Apr 22 2008, 10:26 PM, said:

i thought it was calcium chloride and calcium sulphate si, or is that the same thing?

i know sodium bicard is good for KH

Magnesium chloride and magnesium sulphate are both used in the balling 'lite' method, with calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate.

[ben]

all this chemistry is very confusing,lol.
i like the idea of a bucket of calcium, if it last that long for you mark.

[Crabbit]

Over a year really very cost effective but sometimes i had to just buffer my calcium with a liquid which has to be calcium chloride of some sort. Or i could of justed used hydroxide when i kH got a little out of balance. I now put 20 tea spoons every 3 to 4 days now and after the tank is over a year old. Very simple calcium stays between 410 and 450 and the KH 10 to 12. For a £65 delivered it isn't even the cost of half of any reactor for a 180g tank. Its great to have a bucket of that aquarium gold (calcium) for your tank.

[simon]

Si Clark, on Apr 22 2008, 09:48 PM, said:

Not a big fan of kalk it can cause issues in future of tanks because it binds Phosphate to calcuim. Then if reefer doesn't maintain kalk addition the phosphate can leech back into system.

You should be using Calcium cholride and sodium bicarb in a balanced addition IMO

Where can i get sodium bicarb?

[ben]

at the chemist simon. about £5 for a large tub. mine lasted about a year. but i had to order it in

[Si Clark]

Here's where i get mine from good for citric acid and mag also

http://justasoap.co.uk/catalog/product_inf...9f75f10204aeedf

[john h]

HI ALL
i was just reading this thread and was wondering should i be adding tropic marin bio calcium to my tank?
i only have leathers.,zoas,favias,mushrooms,1 ricordia,1 acropora frag.
also is it normal for kh to drop and is there a better way to keep it stable rather than teaspoons of buffer?
cheers john h

[dylan]

bio calcium is a great product if your kh and calcium are both low at the same time as it will save u money as not only does it raise the calcium it also raise the kh, the problem occurs when the calcium is low but the kh is at a level that you want it this is the time to add liquid calcium as it wont buffer the kh, on the other hand if the calcium is spot on but the kh is low you will need to use a kh+ph buffer in powder form from tropic marin or salifert, if used with respect bio calcium is great if you dont no what it is buffering your tank by your kh could go sky high, the more corals u add the more buffer you will need

[SLAPPY]

john h, on Nov 6 2008, 07:41 PM, said:

HI ALL
i was just reading this thread and was wondering should i be adding tropic marin bio calcium to my tank?
i only have leathers.,zoas,favias,mushrooms,1 ricordia,1 acropora frag.
also is it normal for kh to drop and is there a better way to keep it stable rather than teaspoons of buffer?
cheers john h

Don't add Bio-Calcium or any buffer unless if you are testing for it and know the parameters.

[john h]

hi slappy
do i need to test for calcium? with the corals im keeping. yes im testing for kh and it keeps droping to just under 9 from 10 in a matter of days so i add buffer and so the cycle continues. I s this normal?
cheers john h

[Crabbit]

You should test for Calcium, KH, PH, Magnesium, NH3 Ammonia N02 nitrites , N03 nitrates and Phosphates. For any corals. You can get your local fish shop to test for them until you get your own test kits. You normally get over 50 test per kit and if you test once a week in theory the kit will last you a year.

[Simon Garratt]

I know on occasions all these hydroxide, chloride and sulfate things can get a bit confusing for many, so heres a little idiot guide to what does what in plain simple terms.


Calcium Hydroxide / Kalkwasser = increases both calcium and alkalinity in balance when dosed correctly, but does increase pH as well whilst being dosed.

Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) or (CaCl2.2H2O) = Boosts calcium levels only. no affect on pH or alkalinity.

Sodium Bicarbonate ( NaHCO3) = Boosts Alkalinity only with a mild boost to pH for a temporary period after dosing. (important note: Dont use this for boosting pH, despite its name as a pH 'buffer' It wont 'raise' a low pH, even if you are at 8.0 DkH or above,..all it will do is 'stabalise' the pH you have already. To raise pH, you have to look at the system as a whole).

Magnesium Chloride (MgCl2.6H20) and Magnesium Sulfate (MgSO4.7H20) (mixed at a balanced ratio of 7.24/1) = Boosts magnesium levels

When dealing with calcium and/or alkalinity, and commercially available additives over raw chemicals, you need to know 2 things...

1. Whether you are dealing with a 1-part single additive or 2-part balanced additive. (you cant solve out of balance Ca/Alk with these 2 part solutions, they will only raise 'both' in relation to one another)

2. What concentration they are. Liquid additives are usually woefully dilute for anything other than the smallest systems, so its always worth finding out what your levels are and how much you will need to add before shelling out on several bottles of additive that only get you halfway there. in some cases its simply better to buy the raw chemicals and use them manually to get things in check, and then just do top ups as and when required. (my honest advice is that its always worth having some raw chemicals on hand to solve issues from time to time such as a weak salt mix)

The general rule of thumb to apply with all additives, is to only increase parameters by 50ppm per day at most, or 1dkh in the case of alkalinity. and always check and double check readings and calculations before you commit to a dose of chemicals. Never add directly to the tank. Bar kalkwasser (which has its own set of dosing rules), Its far better to add chemicals via your sump, after being dissolved into a few pints to a gallon of RO water thats dripped in as a temporary replacement for your top up. Dose each chemical separately and take your time.


hope that helps a bit.


regards

Si.