[TrevC]

Having a few snags with a bit of die-back at the moment, any ideas?
Can't see anything (AEFW) on the corals and tank params are ok.
Any help or suggestions gladly received!

[TrevC]

Yes it's a Nana.
I have recently changed the skimmer over to the Deltec as the Schuran seemed to be struggling.
I've also removed the Kalk stirrer a couple of months ago.
The Kalk stirrer was weined off over 2 months.
I do also have a bit of a Majano problem, not plague proportions but must do something about the little blighters.
My Nitrates have always been around the 20ppm mark and I've always had a trace of Phosphate.
The biggest change has been the skimmer, now ripping out loads more gunk.

[Social D]

There was a thread a while back on Reef Central Highlighting that these types are notorious to keep long term without them rtn'ing, Apparently they are very sensitive to any changes in water quality
and go this way very easily more so than your average acropora.

I had two in my old tank that grew large and went the same way as yours are looking, My frags are still in the shop now, I could never pinpoint why they did although i suspect it was small alk swing that started it off .. But it skinned back real quick from the base.

I think jas had similar problems with his when they got larger im sure he can remember better than me tho.

So if the guys on Rc are correct this is not an uncommon occurrence with these specific types.

[ben]

funny you mention kh tim. ive just had a few weeks of kh problems , and lost a few acros, but my nana ( that trev gave me) is , and has been , one of the best looking corals in the tank. its not a massive coral, mabye 4" tall with a few branches, but its very healthy and totally purple.

[Simon Garratt]

Looking at the top image Trev. It looks like it has a boring green algae infection. (not actually an algae at all but i cant remember what its actually classed as).

iirc, corals wont regrow over these areas as the infection effectively works its way up the inside of the coral gradually lifting the tissue as it goes.

From recollection the only two ways to combat it, is to either get the coral growing at a faster rate than the infection can spread (its quite a slow mover) or cut the colony off and reatach in a different location making sure that you seal off the cut area at the base of the frags with milliput to prevent any remnants in the core of the coral spreading again.

Its not an infection thats easily spread, although it can make its way into corals that have had base damage where the skelleton is exposed and not grown over fast enough, or corals that have had damage and then been dipped, therby stripping off the protective mucous layer which is what prevents infestation in the first place.


regards

Si.

[richb]

Does look like Kh shift stripping to me....

[Tony B]

Simon Garratt, on Aug 20 2008, 08:21 AM, said:

cut the colony off and reatach in a different location making sure that you seal off the cut area at the base of the frags with milliput to prevent any remnants in the core of the coral spreading again.

Agree, the coral imo needs to come out and be trimmed. Whilst it's out, I would dip it in Two Little Fishes Revive Coral Cleaner for 4 minutes and use a turkey baster to blow the dip into the coral.

Nana is a magnet for AEFW and whilst the coral is out, it's a perfect oppourtunity to check for them (you wont see them when the coral is in the water).

[TrevC]

Thanks for all the replies chaps, spent a while chatting to Jas and he's going to pop over Friday, to have a look.
Why is it when everything seems great, something jumps up and bites you in the a**?!
Might be time to frag a few corals then......

[ben]

if you need help with that trev

[TrevC]

What, somewhere to house the frags????

[ben]

TrevC, on Aug 20 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

What, somewhere to house the frags????

lol, no . bit risky with the way my tanks been running the last few weeks

[TrevC]

Jas poped round today for a look into my problems.
Most of my problems are down to changing the skimmer and NOT feeding the tank enough.

THERE ARE NO AEFW. Broke a piece off of the Nana and left it dry out, then Jas cast his beady eye over it.

Also got a bit of a Majano and Aiptasia problem.......zapped loads after you went
You're right Jas, I had been neglecting to rid them!

Si the second picture does indeed appear to be an algae problem.

Die back does seem to have slowed down over the last few days,
and advice from the Ginger one is to up the feed,
and turn off the skimmer whilst the food goes in for a hour or so.

Jas, thanks m8.

Trev

[ben]

yeh this high feeding is something i need to look into too trev. nice to have someone prepared to do house calls

[Social D]

Ben the thread was about Nana acro's that reach a certain size/age then are more prone to water chemistry inbalances, Frags are normally hardier than 'colonys' and cope better, The general jist was a few found them highly sensistive to kh swings and elevated no4 po4 levels, and long term success was hard to acumplish.

This algae infection, Does it attck the acro before or after the coral has stn'd rtn'd, The acros ive lost to rtn have all had secondary infections of green algae and seem to follow die-back.
Even when the dieback has stopped this algae still lingers around much to the delight of snails and asterina starfish that seem to feed on it.

If the tank hasnt been fed enough and your acros were thinning i could see how this would make them more subseptible to abnormal swings in chemistry that they wouldnt get in the wild, But with your no4 level at 20ppm and those tangs are you sure the tank isnt already getting enough nutrition already?

[jason@jasonsaquatics]

I think you have to sit back and take a look at the system and the changes done over the last few weeks .

Unlike the smaller acros you have in your system Tim,Trev's are all of good size and in a 100g system with thousands of zoanthus polyps,Tonga mushrooms LPS you name it its there,and there will be a lot of Stress in the system down to Toxin's alone.
Trev was running a Schuran jetskim 150 like the one you have on your system and the results have been outstanding with acros the size of footballs Under 250ws.
A Lot of coral to just feed on light and the hope the nitrate and phosphate do the trick when your skimmer is ripping the food out soon after you add it .

Its not just nana that have taken a little down would slide but a good few acros of different sp.The ones closest to the light are doing ok as there smaller and have no dieback.The largest nana smack under the light is doing ok at the moment but the other large nana thats slightly offset from the light has dieback along with another few sps species that have shadows with very little light in them areas.

My guess is that when Trev changed the skimmer and started to rip more out it was just enough to tip the balance of the system and make a few struggle (Less food source and quick change,not a good combo with such large corals with such high demand imo).

I also think as the acros get bigger there need more food for the base of the acros and the areas where there not getting the light they need .

Trev has had no KH swings that I'm aware of so i think we can rule that one out .All this has taken place a week after the skimmers were changed and imo i think was to much of a change that quick on the system with such large acros in a tank of only 100g .
Like i said to Trev today IMO what i would do is step the food up ,but unlike doing it quick like the issue with the skimmer, step the food up slow and keep a close eye on the Phosphates and nitrates .I'm not sure Trev but do you still have an organic test kit .If so i would do a test with that to just to cover all angles .

The governing factor with Trev's tank unlike most is the pure size of the acros in the system ,pat on the back Trev as you have done well to get them that size on your first sps system


Jas

[jason@jasonsaquatics]

There is another factor with this to Trev as i mentioned when i came down today is the dieback is on there larger specimens in the system apart from the one at war with the milliporas.
The fact that you might well get some dieback on larger specimens in the system as they do get dieback in the wild and this will not harm the acro long term unless you get green alga disease set in

I think now the dieback has slowed right down i would be more concerned about the spread of the manjanos and aps in the system ,there are a lot of manjanos and they can walk as we all know to well so try to keep them away from the sps as this will couse more problems.

One question i have to ask that i didn't ask when i was down ,when you used the Aiptasia X in your Aiptasia was the flow on or off as I'm told this stuff can burn the flesh on other corals

I'm not sure as Lindsay has pointed out ,but does the green algae disease start because of the high nitrates in the system or is it a stress related problem?

jas

[TrevC]

Been zapping aps and majanos with flow off. Been leaving it off for a good hour afterwards.
Still got problems reaching the ones at the front

Thanks again m8, see you frag night.

[TrevC]

Dropped by to see the best shopkeepers in Jasons back garden!
Still suffering with die-back and need to get it sorted out before losing my bigger colonies of corals.
Brought the great lord and master of the refractometer (Lyndsay) a sample of my tank water.....
Ca 420, not bad
Mg 1350, ok
dKh 8.9 - 9.0 , not bad
SG 1.021 - 1.022 OOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Should have read Ben's post and checked mine!

http://www.internationalreefers.com/index....ic=3585&hl=

Got back and checked my refractometer and yep it was reading high!
Re-calibrated and added more salt to tank.

Doh!