[tommo]

Hi guys,

Today, as a result of a large and quite apparent fluke infestation due to the introduction of unquarantined fish, i have just dosed the aquarium im looking after with cedapraz. This aquarium contains a multitude of reef organisms admittedly not in large numbers. Im going to report the full treatment on this thread

Praziquantal the active ingredient, has a reputation for being poorly soulble, the cedapraz was relatively easy to dissolve following instructions as said on the packet.

The fish after three hours look good. the corals havent flinched and the snails haven't started dropping off the glass yet either (which they tend to do, but recover in a couple of days, and im waiting for it)! Because its a lower dose than i usually have to use i will switch UV and ozone on after 24 hours

Repeat treatment planned in five days

Will update through the treatment process and will report effectiveness in about ten days! One important thing to note is that i have gone heavy on the mechanical filtration, this is particularly important with the first dose as prazi is not 100% effective at murdering flukes. it incapacitates them preventing them from latching on and feeding. the repeat dose ensures that adults starve and juveniles are incapacitated, starved and removed before they can begin to reproduce. It is also important not to leave it longer than five days.

Tom

[jason@jasonsaquatics]

Will you be adding carbon after the whole course of treatments to help take any of the left over medication from the water,or will you let the skimmer do the job


Jas

[Dave.I]

Ive used praziquantal over the past 2 years or so.I think the dose was 1 gramm per 300 litres but please dont quote me on that.I mix the first dose with tank water in a bag and realy shake it up and massage it to help dissolving then add it to the sump turning off the skimmer and removing carbon and rowa phos etc.I do a second dose 4 days later then leave it two days before turning the skimmer back on and doing a water change of 10 to 20%.I also run carbon afterwards.
It has been 100% reef safe for me even with pod life etc and has eradicated flukes aka trematodes? very effectivley.
Keep us posted Tommo as this is a very effective but unknown treatment in the UK and any info we can get is desperatly needed!

Dave

[tommo]

prazi has a half life of about two to three days, the skimmer, ozone and UVs should get rid of it slowly, and i will be performing a nice series of water changes with mediterranean seawater after treatment 2 to help get rid before restocking.

Im used to using flubenol (kusuri fluke M is the trade name for aquatic trade) ,though i have used prazi quite regularly in quarantine situations, which overall has a similar effect but outright kills adult flukes apparently. its also a little harsher on the snails and can kill those too at higher doses.

The thing i like about the cedapraz, though its dear, is that it is far more soluble than the pure stuff! Im using it at a lower dose than usual, pretty much equivalent to yours, perhaps a bit less, perhaps a bit more if you were using the poorly soluble pure stuff, dave hence it will be at least 24 hours before i turn anything remotely sterilising on, though prazi is pretty inert and should resist all but the skimming quite well until it is denatured.

I have noticed that the redox hasnt really been lowered much by it unless my probes are screwballed which is a possibility though the redox does drop after feeding as per normal and they were recently calibrated!

i will know by tommorow if its making any difference, the fish should look much brighter to the trained eye after shedding their nasty load and should remain that way after the repeat treatment

Tom

[tommo]

Everything looks better today, less rapid breathing going on, and clearly more activity from the fish, but for some reason the regal tangs are stressing a little. maybee its the cloudy water, maybee they were worse of intially than i thought!

The urchins havent moved overnight at all (again expected) but they look ok.

another two hours of treatment left then ozone, skimmer venturi and UV's back on

Tom

[jason@jasonsaquatics]

Keep us p[osted as to how its going m8

Jas

[tommo]

certainly will m8

Ive noticed in alot of tank break downs that flukes are very very common, especially in our favourites the tangs and angels. Copper dosent really work that well against them and i recommend that retailers look into regular use of flubenol or cedapraz when quarantining their fish. It would make british reef keeping a much better hobby IMHO. I know the last three places i worked i used vetrinary grade pig wormer flubenol 15 (the one that does 40 sows) on days one and three of variable quarantine at a dose of about 11-12 grams per 100 gallons and never had any repercussions. any fish i scraped were totally clean also! It also helped fish like copperbands with their all to common internal ailments

Tom

[lindsay]

Good read,keep the updated coming tommo.

[tommo]

Less frosty reception than i get on other forums with topics such as this i will say that.

treatment phase 1 terminated. the skimmer redox probe sockets on closer inspection were vaselined up to the eyballs (not sure why so much- and it wasnt me!) hence the redox issues. in reality the skimmer redox is still a modest 320 and the drain redox 305 which is alot more reasonable than the difference of 60 that i had before. both are calibrated accurately. its just lucky that it was reading higher rather than lower otherwise there could have been overdose issues!!!!

tom

[lindsay]

Hi tommo i have a quick question on the redox levels.I have been told to run our fish system at 300 to 350 in sump near skimmer and 200 to 250 in the tanks because higher in the fish tanks may upset some fish like Tangs ,does this sound right to you m8 ?.

[tommo]

Not really, id expect a fish tanks in a shop system to come up at 350 ish if i was running ozone, perhaps 320 for larval fish. Its just a case of making sure any excess is removed using carbon

HTH

Tom

[lindsay]

Cool thanks.

[tommo]

I can sorta understand where that advice comes from. any amount of free ozone will cause problems but its bacterial and disease management will be less effective. i would just recommend using cheap grade good carbon like crystal clear. I would also take the gassing off line from the skimmer through carbon as ozone is a carcinogen

HTH

Tom

[Dave.I]

Good stuff Tommo.Keep us updated as this stuff works.I cant understand anybody snubbing you for this kind of post.This is what keeps the hobby moving forwards and people need to exchange ideas and info as much as possible for the good of all of us and the animals we care for.

Dave

[tommo]

I agree totally with you dave and im not sure why things like this are either dismissed or blatantly ignored. The other thing along these lines that winds me up is a blanket ban on treatments in reef aquaria when in reality many reef safe treatments actually are in certain circumstances and do work if used properly.

Out of interest, does anyone know where i can get some chloroquine?

All still ok, skimmer working overtime removing the prazi atm LOL. Might move the next treatment up to tomorrow since we begin sailing on monday!

Tom

[tommo]

Dose 2 complete, fish look excellent

All gone well, no loss of inverts at all!

Thanks for reading

Tom

[Dave.I]

Nice one Tom.Did it remove all signs of flukes for you? What was the dosage if it has worked?

Dave

[tommo]

It was 4 grams per 1000 litres of a 50% prazi solution (that all went properly into solution) and yes, theres no more grey eyes, flicking, and spawning behaviour is back on track with the cardinals since the first treatment was administered!

Tom

[Dave.I]

That cant be far off the dose ive used in the past Tom.The grey/cloudy eyes are a sure sign of flukes/trematodes.I fresh water dip all my fish now before they go into the display,even if they look perfect.
Great post mate

Dave

[tommo]

Yeah, i do, FW dip every time after quarantine, even after using flubenol or prazi, it was a real rushed stocking so i have found out.

I will be ordering some new fish for the display in the next week or two. Im making demands that they get a proper quarantine. Also on this order will be two cleaner wrasse as these are great at keeping background levels of flukes at background levels just incase my successors are pushed again! im only here for another month or so.

Tom