[bobba fett]

As some of you know, I am a moderator on Reefpark, I have trawled through some of our older posts and found this one, I hope the IR mods don't mind me cutting and pasting as its something I didn't know and believe its well worth sharing the information.

By the way the fish never made it despite the member trying her best and even contacting Bob Fenner directly for info at the time

...............

This is a warning for anyone considering treating their Clown Goby, or Goby.
My Clown Goby has been suffering from whitespot / Velvet, so I decided to move him to my QT, and treat him with Copper.
Last night I stumbled across and article in which it horrifically stated that Clown Gobies cannot undergo medications in the same way as other fish, and medications will dissolve their skin. Panicked, I rushed downstairs to discover that this had indeed started happening to my little Goby. I am absolutely mortified! I would NEVER intentionally harm any creature, and I feel incredibly guilty, and disgusted with myself.
I do not know why this is not a well documented fact?
Apparantly, this is due to the Clown Gobies not having scales, but instead, they have a mucus covering. This I already knew. What I did not know was that this fact causes a severe reaction when the fish are medicated, and that the skin literally starts to dissolve, rather like we would if acid got onto our skin.
I cannot begin to tell you how mortified I am.
Please see this http://www.wetwebmedia.com/gobies.htm to read what is says.
I am desperately hoping that my little Saffy will pull through, but it doesn't look good. I did a 50% water change on the QT, to water down the copper levels, and squeezed some polyfilters into the filter also.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't treat these fish. I am going to try to find out more about this, and will post here in due course.
Also, as awful as it will be, I might also try to photograph this, so you can see what I mean, to try to prevent this happening again to someone else. She very literally has holes in her where her skin has fallen off, and where some of her fins have melted.
I have found that it does indeed mention it very briefly in the Gobies section of "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist". It's doesn't really go into much detail explaining how and why this happens though, or how severe their reaction is.
"................. Gobioidds, for the most part, are relatively disease resistant, with the exception of one type of plague: environmental. Though they have cycloid, or ctenoid scales, they have about the same intolerance of harsh chemicals as "naked" fishes. I suspect that more are bumped off from the misuse of copper, malachite and Formalin-containing medicants than from the infectious diseases they're used against."
I had only used the first dose of Copper, thankfully, before I found out Gobies reaction to it. Some people might dose again, not knowing what they were looking at!
I think that "the misuse of copper" from the quote above, is a bit misleading. Makes you think about overdosing copper when treating. I think really is should be clear that ANY use of the above substances will have the same affect.
Horrific to see.................... I don't want to make anyone sick, but there was a piece of flesh on the bottom of the tank this morning, from the hole in her side.
I don't know what her survival likelihood is.............. does anyone know how well fish heal with flesh and skin damages?
Still feeling utterly miserable over the whole episode ...................
Please, if you are members of any other forums, post on that forum too, to spread this vital information.
I shall post an update tomorrow.
Does anyone know if I am going about a hospital tank in the right way? I am keeping the sides blacked out, and no light on ................ is this right?
What about water changes? Should a daily very small one be okay? What about feeding her?
Should I lower the SG, to prevent any bacterial infection in her wounds - if so, what SG am I aiming for
Sorry there are so many questions!!!!!!!!!!
I just want to make her as comfortable as I can.

......

[ben]

dont mind at all bobba. all info is helpful no matter where it comes from.

[bobba fett]

Thanks Ben, Hopefully it may save a few more gobies if more people read it

[tommo]

There is something funny, and much deeper going on here, gobiodon are highly sensetive to copper, but aren't going to start melting in it within 24 hours under normal treatment regimes. Its either a chronic OD (easier than you think) or a vibriosis infection as a result of poor conditions in quarantine. vibrio is very fast acting and because of the sensetivity of the goby to the copper it will have little to no immunity to the infection.

Tom

[bobba fett]

Interesting that there was obviously another cause at work here but I had no idea that gobys and copper didn't mix

[tommo]

Im very careful with them and with all other fish to be honest, seahorses will typically take up to 0.12mg/l copper, i haven't ever exposed gobiodon to more than this and always build it up in three doses over at least 72 hours. No ill effects noted yet.

HTH

[bobba fett]

Having said that, in 8 years of reefing I have never used a copper based medication, I am very anal about copper and my tank.

[tommo]

This is shopwork m8, high turnover high stress environments with the conclusion that very occasionally things do get diseases, its unavoidable and difficult to treat without the miracle cure. At home, copper is the last thing i will use personally. Its not that bad if used correctly, in the correct situation and with knowlege of what it most affects but it quite clearly affects the immune system of even the most resiliant and tolerant species.

You have to weigh up the scale of the disease, if its Amyloodinium or Crypto and its about to start killing things, copper is the only way to fix it fast with minimal stress to the fish, alternative therapies and weak treatments based on formalin can be used if its only a mild to medium infection.

Nutrition is a biggy! this is the way to reapidly build up a fishes immune system after a spell in the dreaded Cu++.

HTH

Tom