[tillysreef]

Hi all. Looking at getting an ro unit soon. Whats the pros and cons regarding wastage etc and whats the one to get.

[chriss]

Bit of no-brainer really. If you are on a meter and have concerns about wastage there are several ways to minimise it. Not being on a meter myself, I can't comment for sure, but as I read it, the price of water is relatively so cheap it's not an issue.

Things to do...

. Get a six stage filter (3x prefilters, membrane, di and carbon)
. Get a dual inline tds meter with one sensor fitted after your membrane and the other after the di resin so you can keep an eye on them.
. Make sure you flush the membrane and the di each time.
. Change your di resin when ti starts to rise
. Get at least a 50 GPD version that includes an auto-shutoff facility

If the wastage really bothers you, you can add multiple membranes and/or take the water from a separate water butt rather than from the mains and return the wast back to the same barrel. You can then cycle the same water around and around for quite some time before dumping it all out.

Chris

[SLAPPY]

Pro's: Better quality water, no chlorine. chloromine and any associated junk in the tap water.

Con's: Water waste is slightly more than the product water, this can be reduced by installing a second membrane to the system. Cost of replacement filters and DI resin (£15), replacement membrane approx £25. Needs a pressure pump if your water pressure is low (£50)

Can only recommend 2 suppliers on the market.

Osmotics (www.osmotics.co.uk) had great service from them everytime and
RO-Man (www.ro-man.com) both are just as good as each other, just compare the prices between the two.

If you're on water rates, then the question of wastage doesn't apply. If you're on a water meter and are a tight git, run the waste outlet to a water butt or something.

[tillysreef]

So reading that its feasable to recycle the waste water? If thats the case i guess the ro unit must b inneficient to have that amount of waste to start.or have i got that totally wrong as usual

[WET FISH]

pros you save money & with a tds meter you know how good it is.

cons you got to do it & i always over flow lol

[mrfishy]

there are no cons
you are in control of your own water quality
RO man has been off line for over a week now, on another forum they are suggesting they have gone under but let's hope not.

[chriss]

tillysreef, on Oct 14 2009, 04:21 PM, said:

So reading that its feasable to recycle the waste water? If thats the case i guess the ro unit must b inneficient to have that amount of waste to start.or have i got that totally wrong as usual

It's just the nature of the beast. Efficiency goes hand in hand with price.

Chris

[karnivor]

even the most inefficient RO unit is cheaper to run than buying water.
For me, RO is an absolute must for Reefkeeping and should always be included in the cost of setting up a system. The only possible exception being a Nano tank, where the cost of buying water is less of an issue.

I would always recommend setting up a permanent system where possible, in a garage or similar, with a stock of water always available.

Here is a picture of my RO/DI setup. It is a pumped (less waste), computer controlled, auto switchoff system that even flushes the membrane every few hours, even when not in use.
Total cost for the entire setup was less than £200. A very worthy investment and a bargain compared to some of the stuff you buy for marines.

I have 250 Ltrs of water available at any time and to deal with any emergencies.

[tillysreef]

karnivor, on Oct 14 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

even the most inefficient RO unit is cheaper to run than buying water.
For me, RO is an absolute must for Reefkeeping and should always be included in the cost of setting up a system. The only possible exception being a Nano tank, where the cost of buying water is less of an issue.

I would always recommend setting up a permanent system where possible, in a garage or similar, with a stock of water always available.

Here is a picture of my RO/DI setup. It is a pumped (less waste), computer controlled, auto switchoff system that even flushes the membrane every few hours, even when not in use.
Total cost for the entire setup was less than £200. A very worthy investment and a bargain compared to some of the stuff you buy for marines.

I have 250 Ltrs of water available at any time and to deal with any emergencies.

nice set up tell me more

[karnivor]

well, theres not too much to say really.

The Tank is a covered domestic 250Ltr water tank, available from any plumbing suppliers. It is drilled on both sides with an overflow on one side and a small ballcock on the other, to provide flow control.
The RO unit is supplied by Vyair, who are web based and it comes with a tank and faucet, both of which are surplus and if you wanted could be sold on Fleabay.
From the RO unit the water flows in a dual DI unit to finally remove any remaining pollution, which can often be Phosphates. fitted to the DI is a in line TDS meter, which tells me when the filters need changing (input reading) and when the DI needs changing (output reading).
The Ballcock and DI units come from RO-Man.

The waste water goes to drain, but could be used for garden irrigation and car washing if you were a greeny. The financial cost of the waste water is not really worth considering when you work it all out.

My output water always reads 1 or 0, and given the accuracy of the TDS meter is +- 1 digit, its zero.

I built a stillage for the tank as it allows me to have a thumping great tap on it and enables me to get a bucket under it if needed. TBH I use an hose pipe connected to an old return pump to fill my tank reservoir, hence the mains lead coming out of the top of the tank. I dont like carrying water. The hose is only ever used for this purpose, so is clean.

other than building the stillage from breeze blocks, the whole installation is less than an afternoon's work.

I have had this setup for just over a year and it has run faultlessly.

HTH
Tony

[SLAPPY]

I'm surprised at after 18 months of reefing, you have only now decided to look into an RO unit.

One word of caution, if you are planning on keeping your RO unit outside, insulate it as my 50 GPD blew last year due to frost. Now using the 100 GPD but have that in the utility room.

[SLAPPY]

mrfishy, on Oct 14 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

there are no cons
you are in control of your own water quality
RO man has been off line for over a week now, on another forum they are suggesting they have gone under but let's hope not.

Not too sure what's going on but these posts don't sound good at all.

http://www.ultimater...ad.php?t=337447

http://www.ultimater...ad.php?t=326978

http://www.ultimater...ad.php?t=335679

[tillysreef]

SLAPPY, on Oct 14 2009, 09:14 PM, said:

I'm surprised at after 18 months of reefing, you have only now decided to look into an RO unit.

One word of caution, if you are planning on keeping your RO unit outside, insulate it as my 50 GPD blew last year due to frost. Now using the 100 GPD but have that in the utility room.

well i havent had a problem with my water as i dechlorinate it and leave it standing with a circulating pump for at least a week, i know that dosent make it perfect, all my softies and others do well but i have been recently buying ro water so me being me it was time to do research and take the plunge so to speak

[Simon Garratt]

The long and short of it is that You'll never regret getting an RO unit, and neither will your reef.

The methodology (and marketing) around tap water preperation fluids (de-chlorinators etc) is seriously flawed unfortunately.

They are based on the instant principle. Ie they are desighned to make small batches of water habitable there and then for durable organisms that arnt too succeptable to short term adverse conditions where pollutants are concerned. They arnt designed for running a full blown reef system long term for three good reasons.

1: The number and concentrations of differing pollutants in tap water varies massively from one location to the next and in some cases, one day to the next. Water treatment fluids are only desighned to work on the 'worst' instantly and potentially lethal materials found in tap watrer. they arnt desighned to work on all pollutants, especially those that can cause some long term issues in some organisms as they build up in the body tissues or organs.

2: No method of filtration or assortment of stock takes up or controles all undesirable polutants that build up over time in the back ground. All tanks suffer one inescapable fate....the demise of the system by long term accumulation of pollutants be they metals or other compounds that are introduced via various pathways but with no escape route.

3: nearly all systems evaporate more in the course of a year than they have exchanged via water changes....its actually scary how much water goes into a system in top up, compared to how much gets swapped out. Even with a very low TDS input, it mounts up to a considerable mass of foreign material imported over time compared to that being 'exported'...

to give some perspective:

my 400 gallon system evaporates nearly 5 gallons per day.....

thats 150 gallons a month, or 1800 gallons per year....

my water changes nowadays equal just 50 gallons or so per month.

so, all in all....Ro units offer you the ability to limit the addition of a whole host of untestable compounds and detrimental material that can and will build up over the long term, materials that shorten the viable lifespan of the system as a whole. They also reduce the risks of longterm health issues in stock brought about by accumulating levels of untestable materials in body tissues and organs.

regards

[tillysreef]

hi simon
many thanks for the reply and everyone else
that makes complete sense now to me so Ro here i come, just got to work out which to buy now as ive only a 4x2x2 with 4x1x1 sump and change approx 10 per cent a week, could really do with a portable non plumbed in version for ease of use or go with the above pics and build that
tilly

[SLAPPY]

tillysreef, on Oct 14 2009, 10:30 PM, said:

with the above pics and build that

Hope you're not planning on building an RO unit yourself, it will cost you more to do it this way.

Ro unit do not neccessarily have to be hard plumbed, you can get connectors to quick release them for storage but make sure that when you do it, they are pressurised as otherwise the membrane can get damaged.

[tillysreef]

hi tony
i meant do a similar setup to the above mate

[TrevC]

Tony, when your float switch makes and stops the flow, does the RO unit still produce to waste?

Or does the RO unit sense the back pressure and stop the pump running?


Cheers

Trev

[tillysreef]

TrevC, on Oct 27 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

Tony, when your float switch makes and stops the flow, does the RO unit still produce to waste?

Or does the RO unit sense the back pressure and stop the pump running?


Cheers

Trev

ive the same unit and it stops the pump running as soon as it gets the back pressure

[SLAPPY]

tillysreef, on Oct 27 2009, 08:03 PM, said:

ive the same unit and it stops the pump running as soon as it gets the back pressure

Does the pump run continously when the RO unit is filling up the pressure tank? How long does it take to fill the tank?