[ReefAnon]

Just curious about the chemistry of this...

My DIY reactor does the job with little fuss but have often seen the idea of dripping the effluent into a second container and/or chamber to use up gas/raise ph/get more dKH and Ca out.

What I've never understood is why doesn't some of the dkH/Ca rebond to the media in this second container or come out of solution - ie as the idea is to raise the ph back up a bit why doesn't it start to reverse the process? ( I'm presuming it doesn't as otherwise the idea would be self-defeating )

Daniel

[ReefAnon]

No thoughts on this then?

[chriss]

OK, at the risk of being corrected, what I've found in my own experience, is that running the effluent thru a second reactor has very little, if any, real effect to the ph, so I'm guessing the water doesn't become over saturated to the extent it dumps out again (you can tell I know all the technical terms )

I run a modified Korallin 1501 reactor that is about double the original, this feeds to an "effluent chamber" which is really an old kalk stirrer filled with arm media. My tests show that the second chamber raises the ph by about 0.01 to 0.02, leaving it at around 6.45

Just out of interest, I then run it thru an O2 reactor which pushes the ph up to around 7.9 to 8.0 before it re-enters the tank.


Chris

[TrevC]

I was running the output from my Korallin 1501 (filled with small branch media) to a Korallin 1501 Biodesedinator (nitrate reactor) which I had filled with ARM.
Running the reactor at a pH of 6.35, the branch media was "melting" at a reasonable rate.......however the ARM had hardly moved!
At what pH is ARM supposed to melt?
I was outputting to the tank 40 ml/min at a dKH of 38.

This poses the question "Is it really worth running an effluent chamber?"

After speaking with Linds on Friday about this very subject, I have now removed the second reactor and will test the effluent over the next couple of days.

If you are looking to raise the pH, then run an O2 reactor.

[ReefAnon]

Thanks for the replies guys - very interesting. So it would seem that running the effluent into another chamber isn't actually raising the PH much at all. It kind of sounds like there's actually no advantage of doing this over simply having a bigger reactor if more performance is the goal. I've never bothered with dripping the output into another chamber but just wondered if I was missing something as I've often seen it recommended.

I used to use ARM and found I started getting something out of it at about 6.8 but never ran it lower than that so don't know when it dissolves. I read somewhere that it doesn't dissolve but just stops producing much (though that doesn't make a lot of sense to me).

Have toyed with the idea of Ozone but safety/cost/maintenance put me off. I take it you're both referring to Ozone when you say O2 ? ( O2 is oxygen, Ozone is O3) .

Daniel

[chriss]

TrevC, on Oct 25 2009, 09:46 AM, said:

I was running the output from my Korallin 1501 (filled with small branch media) to a Korallin 1501 Biodesedinator (nitrate reactor) which I had filled with ARM.
Running the reactor at a pH of 6.35, the branch media was "melting" at a reasonable rate.......however the ARM had hardly moved!
At what pH is ARM supposed to melt?
I was outputting to the tank 40 ml/min at a dKH of 38.

This poses the question "Is it really worth running an effluent chamber?"

Trev, I've found exactly the same with the ARM in my second chamber and have asked myself the same question, is it worth it? I think we both know what the answer is now.

Chris

[chriss]

ReefAnon, on Oct 25 2009, 10:36 AM, said:

Have toyed with the idea of Ozone but safety/cost/maintenance put me off. I take it you're both referring to Ozone when you say O2 ? ( O2 is oxygen, Ozone is O3) .

No, we are indeed referring to an O2, oxygen reactor. See this link ...http://www.internati...?showtopic=5383

Chris

[ReefAnon]

Oops ok you really did mean O2. Just read that thread and it illustrated the point I was wondering about originally - ie the risk of precipitation in the final container once you raise the PH - it looks like this is exactly what happend to yours Chris? I guess it's a matter of balance?

[jed]

I had a korallin 1501 running after a 3001 as a second chamber with Arm,when i took it offline after about a year,it was full of a chalky mush from precipitation i suspected as i'd never got the ph low enough to cause this in the 1'st chamber.
although when i first installed the 2nd chamber and testing the difference, i was getting an extra 10dkh out on the effluent.
I think these new O2 reactors are a good idea and have always wondered why something like has has never been used before now,although i still don't use one as i've never had a problem with low ph, overall i think the people worry to much about adding co2 to the our tanks as corals need co2 to live and grow, i suppose the question is how much? but i now run my effluent straight back in the tank and it doesn't seem to make any difference,although i may experiment with a O2 reactor at some point.

[lindsay]

I was running the schuran at 100mil at 6.2 into a second effluent chamber which i was dripping the water into to get better contact with the media.I found that the top part of the media in the chamber would very slowly break down which i topped up only once after many many months.I think the reason for this is once the ph starts to rise much above 6.5 ish the media stops breaking down so as a result will stop raising the effluents ph by any real amount.
In the o2 reactors you may get some precipitation happen from the sudden ph rise,ours has been running for many months but i have not cleaned it once to date.
As a side question,if you were to drip the reactors effluent straight into the sump would the high ph of the tanks water also cause some precipitation?.

[ReefAnon]

Hi Lindsay,

I can see the benefits of an O2 reactor esp if ph levels are low. As regards getting precipitation anyway just by dripping into a sump I guess there might be more flow and a higher exchange of water in a sump - though lot's of variables there dependant on setup. More points against dripping into a container filled with media though (as opposed to an O2 reactor) - lower flow plus a nice handy surface for precipitation.

Just for interest this is what Randy Holmes Farley had to say in response to my original question about second media chambers over on RC :

"A really large single chamber might accomplish the same thing. The rise in pH only comes from dissolving more media, so you have not yet reached equilibrium between the media and the amount of CO2 added (e.g., the pH). It is correct that if you raise pH other ways (like blowing off some CO2), you may risk precipitation. "

Whichever way you cook it it's still about your setup and getting the balance right I think - sounds like you have on your O2 reactor if you've not seen precipitation. Must give the idea a try one day.

PS - total tangent - Sharon is still raving about your tangs - were they Vlamingis and are there some pics as I missed out.

Daniel

[lindsay]

Not sure on this but perhaps a dkh test on the effluent before and after the o2 reactor may show different results if precipitation is happening.Not got any pics of the Vlamingis but will try to do some soon.

[chriss]

I did some dkh test either side of the O2 reactor and didn't find anything conclusive. I find that even if you repeat a dkh test on the same sample it varies a little and the differences I found either side weren't outside what I would take as the normal variations you get.

Chris