[karl]

right i have a slight problem with a lipstick tang (all other tangs are fine)

i have had it for about 2 weeks now

this is when i first got it



and this is it today



since i have had the lipstick it wont eat frozen or flake and will only eat nori or graze on the rocks if i add a rock covered in algae it will strip the rock quite happily

i have been told the lipstick is quite thin

so frozen wise i have
brine shrimp with omega-3
mussel meat
krill pacifica
mysis shrimp
improvit for salt water fish

i also had julian springs green seaweed

now it eats the seaweed and i have seen it eat the odd mysis shrimp but nothing else bar grazing at the rocks

so i went out and bought some more to give it a varied diet what i got was

julian springs purple seaweed which it seems to eat
jullian springs red seaweed which it dont seem overly impressed with
new era marine flake which it dont touch
new era algea pellets
again it does not touch

what can i do is the seaweed enough to substain it or am i going to have problems ???

[karnivor]

If your new era pellets are the soft type, you could roll some together and stick it to a rock that he likes grazing.
You may have an infestation of flukes or worms, which is common in rock grazers, in which case it made need treating.

The fish is seriously under weight and you will need to act quite quickly.

Tommo is the man who can give you the best advice.

[karl]

tried that with the pellets and tried sticking them to the glass but it just ignor's it

their is a cleaner wrasse in their with it

how can i tell if it has worms or flukes ?? what is the best way to treat them and with what product ?

[karnivor]

I can only really relay what Tommo advised me to do and that is to use Kusuri Wormer.
You would need to Quarantine it though, as it may kill some inverts.

If you decide to go down that route, I have some wormer sitting in jasons, but you will need to replace the packet, cus once its opened it has a short shelf life. You will also need to leave some at Jason's, in case my Moorish needs it.

I would certainly take advice from Tommo first though, as hes the expert in this area.

[karl]

cheers tony will wait see what tommo advises as well

[chriss]

Deja vu!

Just been thru the same thing. Lindsay got the tang eating mysis happily before I took it home. Over six weeks or so it didn't really eat properly and lost a lot of weight. I was feeding mysis soaked in lipovits as well as the new era pellets and other bits, it just didn't have the drive to eat. I thought at one point we had turned a corner when it started to fatten up a bit and pick at algae on the seios, but it didn't last. I found it was more likely to take food later in the day, so would hold off feeding until then but to no avail. It wasn't getting bullied or harrased and would swim around the tank quite happily. Unfortunately it didn't survive and died a couple of weeks back.

After doing a fair bit of searching around, it's not common for lipstick tangs to be finick eaters, unlike most others.

Good luck!

Chris

[karl]

cheers chris thats what i read about the tangs

its just odd how it will happily eat algae and graze of the rocks and have the odd few mysis

if i put an endless supply of nori in it would eat all day long

[karl]

here is a vid of the red seaweed that they are not too keen on




and here is a vid of the green (purple is just the same)



as you can see she is normally the first one their when the nori goes in

[jason@jasonsaquatics]

I thought you were going to hold back a while on a Lipstick Karl .Not sure if you remember but i did say i didn't think you or the new tank were ready for the lipstick yet .

Well whats done is done , If hes eating the Dried algae i would carry on feeding Him/Her on it and with some luck over time the Lipstick may start to take frozen .

I'm sure Tommo can shed more light on the best way to go as hes the fish guy really

Good luck m8


jas

[karl]

jason@jasonsaquatics, on Oct 20 2009, 03:48 PM, said:

I thought you were going to hold back a while on a Lipstick Karl .Not sure if you remember but i did say i didn't think you or the new tank were ready for the lipstick yet .

Well whats done is done , If hes eating the Dried algae i would carry on feeding Him/Her on it and with some luck over time the Lipstick may start to take frozen .

I'm sure Tommo can shed more light on the best way to go as hes the fish guy really

Good luck m8


jas

this wasnt one of my best idea's tbh i didnt think about much when i saw it for sale a bit daft of me tbh as i have been quite good with resisting temptation with the tank stocking

[tommo]

I would definately worm this fish using the kusuri wormer, he is extremely thin. If you dose twice (in quarantine) five days apart then you should see a massive almost instant improvement, I would then dose a final time, again after five days to be on the safe side.

Get him on lipid supplements on the nori very quickly, as you are finding his appetance is poor , use TMC lipovit and immuvit in combination onto the dried seaweed as the vitamin B12 in there will dramatically improve this.

He needs to be on one or another type of new era flake/ pellet food or ocean nutrition formula one pellets or flakes, plus let him graze on Julian sprung purple porphyra and green algaes in combination on a constant basis until he recovers. A mix of frozen will also do no harm. To transfer him onto this, once you have got him used to the immuvit/ lipovit, simply add it to the other foods. and he will start to pick and eventually wolf these down.

This fish has not been adjusted to captivity properly. It isnt a particularly easy thing to do, and some of the methods i use may seem a little odd but It is important that you quarantine fish like these to avoid such problems later on. Get him a nice small tank set up with maybee a sprinkling of sand and a rock or silk plant, and a small internal filter full of biomedia at the least and keep him there until he is 100%

HTH

Tom

[karl]

tommo, on Oct 20 2009, 04:11 PM, said:

I would definately worm this fish using the kusuri wormer, he is extremely thin. If you dose twice (in quarantine) five days apart then you should see a massive almost instant improvement, I would then dose a final time, again after five days to be on the safe side.

Get him on lipid supplements on the nori very quickly, as you are finding his appetance is poor , use TMC lipovit and immuvit in combination onto the dried seaweed as the vitamin B12 in there will dramatically improve this.

He needs to be on one or another type of new era flake/ pellet food or ocean nutrition formula one pellets or flakes, plus let him graze on Julian sprung purple porphyra and green algaes in combination on a constant basis until he recovers. A mix of frozen will also do no harm. To transfer him onto this, once you have got him used to the immuvit/ lipovit, simply add it to the other foods. and he will start to pick and eventually wolf these down.

This fish has not been adjusted to captivity properly. It isnt a particularly easy thing to do, and some of the methods i use may seem a little odd but It is important that you quarantine fish like these to avoid such problems later on. Get him a nice small tank set up with maybee a sprinkling of sand and a rock or silk plant, and a small internal filter full of biomedia at the least and keep him there until he is 100%

HTH

Tom

cheers tommo

do you mean another type to the two i have or are the 2 i have suitable

i have a small 70l tank i can set up , with liver rock and sand also powerheads would this need to have a light

or would i be better to add a internal filter isntead of the lr or as well as the live rock

would i be better off doing an early water change and using the existing water or would i be better with fresh

[tommo]

Add both the rock and the filter, but once the filter has had a proper chance to cycle remove the rock if you intend keeping a quarantine tank on the go.

It is worth doing the early water change and use tank water.

The foods you have bought are ideal, you just need the lipovit and immuvit.

A light is not absolutely necessary as long as ambient light is good enough to call 'daytime'


HTH

Tom

[karl]

right i have the above wormer and the 2 vitamins on order (would the vits be good to add to the main tank as well?)

right i have the qt tank setup with a heater powerhead and a filter the rock will be added once the water is in and the water change is mixing as i type

should i try to catch the tang and add it straight to the qt tonight or should i leave it for a day or so

[dave14]

Hope it pulls through Karl, there a great fish. TBH it looked quite thin in the first pic when you bought it

Here's a couple of pics of mine, the 2nd although not a great pic shows how fat they should be.
Mine eats anything though after being put through the Lindsay feeding regime whilst in the shop

[chriss]

Tommo, regarding the worming, would you worm any fish which has lost weight and is not eating or have you suggested this as a preventative or is a thin non-eating naso tang indicative of worms? IE what causes you to recommend worming? Perhaps I should have wormed mine before it got to late.

Are there any other symptons of worm infestations? I'd always assumed a fish in need of worming would eat a lot but not put on weight.

Sounds like another good topic for you

Chris

[tommo]

TBH Chris, The wormer also treats flukes, so I usually just worm everything that comes my way. A tang that is losing weight at any real rate, especially whilst maintaining a slightly rounded gut can be sure to have some form of internal parasite, such as tapeworms or thorny headed worms. The number of fish i have sliced and diced post mortem with allsorts of interesting internal parasites is scary. Even seemingly healthy fish!

There gets a point with internal worms (which sometimes chemically drive excessive appetance) where they cause so much damage that the fish's hunger mechanism switches off. This is where it becomes important to get the vitamin B12 into the animal before it is too late and thus the lipovit/ immuvit comes in. This fish was probably showing good signs of settling in the retailers/wholesalers and would have been eating like a pig. It is no suprise that it made it into circulation.

I have been asked to put together something that goes through the proper treatment of newly imported/ acquired fish which i shall do.

Naso elegans and lituratus should be nice and fat, and as they grow above the 8- 9 inch mark almost lean towards cigar shaped. When you see wild ones in the red sea you can see clearly how many of our aquarium fish are severely undernourished. Lipsticks have a particular reputation for mysteriously dying after several 'healthy' years in aquaria. This i totally attribute to poor nutrition and underfeeding. The products are there, its just using them correctly! Nasos become less algae orientated and more pelagic as they grow and need a good range of frozen and staple flake/ pellet in addition to the algae on a very regular basis.

HTH


Tom

[tommo]

I would allow the quarantine tank to settle for a couple of days m8 before you add the tang if possible!

Keep a close eye on water quality and if you need to do some water changes (there will be plenty of food going in for him)

New era is advantageous in quarantine if you can wean him onto it asap as it takes a very long time to start to decompose in the aquarium and is highly digestible

HTH

Tom

[karl]

how would you sujest feeding him when he is in the qt

just feed and feed nori or offer nothing but the other items that he is not eating

or should i try to fatten it up then try with the other foods

not really sure what way to do this

[tommo]

Get him on something that you know he eats with the vits (like the nori) then once you have wormed him for treatment one, start introducing the other foods, soaked in the vits. He will take to them! make sure there is some seaweed in there for him to permanently graze on until he has more weight on him

Tom