Help
Hi, ive done loads of research recently but i just have a few questions for you lot as i get told so many different things, but this site seems to be good for advice, hope you can help.
I have a external filter, will i be ok with just foam, live rock and ceramic rings? Is that right that a phosphate remover will only be needed if corals are kept which demand them?
Im going to have coral sand, any suggestions as to which make?
Am i right in saying to keep the skimmer and powerheads on all times, but swithch the powerhead off at feeding?
Tunze and Koralia are the powerheads i have in mind, would you reccomend one over the other?
Im worried that if i have to treat the tank with copper based solutions then it will damage some of the livestock, i dont have access to another tank, are there treatments available which are copper free? Someone told me they just take the fish out and put it in to pure ro water for about 10 minutes which is enough clear the parasites, is that actually ok to do? personally i wouldnt of thought so, but thought id ask!
Last one!- Its a 200 litre tank, with external filter, external skimmer, and 2 power heads (prob pushing 4600lph) and for now 2 standard t8, do you think i may have trouble with the tank getting too hot or should it be ok?
Thanks alot guys.
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Some questions for you lovely people!
#2
Blacktip 
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 03:27 PM
I guess the first question is what is it you intend to keep? If you are starting off fish only then I would say the following:
The filter inserts that you suggest would be fine but use a phosphate remover. Corals will be inhibited by phosphates but as you wont be keeping any - not an issue. However if you dont use a remover your algae will grow like mad and you will have a pretty manky looking took in a pretty short space of time. So I'd use the filter floss the live rock and then carbon and phosphate remover.
Caribsea is a good sand. Personally I'd go with oolitic sand as it is very fine leading to nitrate removal and lots of critters living in the sand. Not everyone would take that route though so you could use a standard 2mm sand but keep it very shallow.
Keeping skimmer and pumps running 24/7 is great. Personally I'm now running my skimmer through the night as it keeps my temp stable as they can put a lot of heat out and it's cheaper to run at night, helps keep pH more stable in a system like yours with no sump.
I use tunze and think they are great.
Copper in fish only is fine with the exception of gobies and other things you wont be keeping. Having said that it is pretty nasty stuff and I'd only use it as a last resort. There are other products out there but not as effective. If you feed on good quality foods and your water is good with low levels of stress most disease go away. Exception can be white spot which is a bit of a night mare! You can use fresh water baths can be a lottery as to how effective it is. It can be very good at taking diseases out but the fish needs to be pretty healthy generally as it can kill the fish as well! Experiance will help you as you learn.
Temp under t8 lights will be fine, maybe keep an eye out on hot days.
Hope that helps
The filter inserts that you suggest would be fine but use a phosphate remover. Corals will be inhibited by phosphates but as you wont be keeping any - not an issue. However if you dont use a remover your algae will grow like mad and you will have a pretty manky looking took in a pretty short space of time. So I'd use the filter floss the live rock and then carbon and phosphate remover.
Caribsea is a good sand. Personally I'd go with oolitic sand as it is very fine leading to nitrate removal and lots of critters living in the sand. Not everyone would take that route though so you could use a standard 2mm sand but keep it very shallow.
Keeping skimmer and pumps running 24/7 is great. Personally I'm now running my skimmer through the night as it keeps my temp stable as they can put a lot of heat out and it's cheaper to run at night, helps keep pH more stable in a system like yours with no sump.
I use tunze and think they are great.
Copper in fish only is fine with the exception of gobies and other things you wont be keeping. Having said that it is pretty nasty stuff and I'd only use it as a last resort. There are other products out there but not as effective. If you feed on good quality foods and your water is good with low levels of stress most disease go away. Exception can be white spot which is a bit of a night mare! You can use fresh water baths can be a lottery as to how effective it is. It can be very good at taking diseases out but the fish needs to be pretty healthy generally as it can kill the fish as well! Experiance will help you as you learn.
Temp under t8 lights will be fine, maybe keep an eye out on hot days.
Hope that helps
#3
heady2010
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Posted 12 July 2010 - 05:05 PM
Sorry i should of mentioned, i do plan to keep soft corals once its been up and running for a while and possible move on to more advanced corals depending on how it all goes. I heard not to keep carbon with corals?? and also the floss that you mentioned, is that just the normal floss you buy for the filters to give the tank a clearer look? thanks for the help.
#4
Blacktip
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Posted 13 July 2010 - 07:53 PM
Pretty much the same as above then except that you shouldn't go near copper. You just have to keep the fish healthy! Thats why reef keeping is for the more experianced.
Yep thats the filter floss.
To be honest, you'll have to upgrade to keep the less hardier types of corals. Are you using live rock in your main system? Otherwise I doubt you'll be able to control nitrates and other nutrients.
Carbon should be used with corals. I think there are some arguements that pulse corals fail with carbon but basically you should use carbon. the question is wether to use it 24/7 or just a few days a month. Ask the guys on here how they use it. But neither will really do any harm. A system with carbon is a must.
You'll hear a lot of rubbish from lots of people and lots of contradictions. The contradictions aren't neccesarily wrong, just different ways of running things. Keep asking on here and you'll get some very good info.
Yep thats the filter floss.
To be honest, you'll have to upgrade to keep the less hardier types of corals. Are you using live rock in your main system? Otherwise I doubt you'll be able to control nitrates and other nutrients.
Carbon should be used with corals. I think there are some arguements that pulse corals fail with carbon but basically you should use carbon. the question is wether to use it 24/7 or just a few days a month. Ask the guys on here how they use it. But neither will really do any harm. A system with carbon is a must.
You'll hear a lot of rubbish from lots of people and lots of contradictions. The contradictions aren't neccesarily wrong, just different ways of running things. Keep asking on here and you'll get some very good info.
#5
lindsay
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:19 AM
I think when it comes to carbon use it kind of depends on the system,this is probably why there is so many different views on its use in a marine coral tank,i run carbon partially on the sps system but dont run it on the lps system,that said it would not hurt to run carbon on the lps for say a week once a month.Like Blacktip has said there is no harm in carbon you just need to decide how much and how often to use it.
#6
heady2010
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 04:38 PM
Blacktip, on Jul 13 2010, 08:53 PM, said:
To be honest, you'll have to upgrade to keep the less hardier types of corals. Are you using live rock in your main system? Otherwise I doubt you'll be able to control nitrates and other nutrients.
I will be using live rock yes, was planning on using 3/4 lr and 1/4 ocean rock, would this be ok or is it best to go 100% lr? what upgrades would i need?
#7
heady2010
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 04:42 PM
lindsay, on Jul 14 2010, 10:19 AM, said:
i run carbon partially on the sps system but dont run it on the lps system,that said it would not hurt to run carbon on the lps for say a week once a month.Like Blacktip has said there is no harm in carbon you just need to decide how much and how often to use it.
Am I right in saying that soft corals do not fall under sps or lps as they are both stony corals? If so would carbon not be a issue? Can i ask aswell why you run carbon on the sps and not on the lps just out of curiosity?
thanks
#8
Blacktip
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Posted 14 July 2010 - 06:18 PM
3/4 live rock would be fine. In terms of nitrate reducing capacity live rock and ocean rock will be the same. The live bit about live rock rock is that the critters will reduce the amount nutrients higher up the chain preventing nitrates in the first place. The ocean rock will get colonised by the live stuff and become just as efficient.
Another thing about live rock, and will save you a fair bit is that live rock works on surface area and not weight. With your rock , try to make a large open structure so that water can flow around as much of the individual pieces of rock as possible. This will mean that you wont be able to put as much rock as the 'recommended' amount would suggest. I think the recommended amount is about a kilo per gallon(?) which would mean that you would creat a 'wall' of rock. This has very little open surface arear to the rock, and defeats the object. With a lot less rock you can have a lot more exposed surface area. With some of the money you save buy your self some good flow pumps like the tunze or the cheaper seio pumps. Basically the more flow you have the better the rock will work.
In terms of upgrades for full reef systems include calcium reactors, powerful lighting systems and sumps. Sumps are great and well worth considering. These will give you more volume, somewhere to hide all the equipment and more methods of nutrient export such as Deep sand Beds, Algae scrubbers, dark zones, refugiums etc (all good things to learn!). Corals need very good nutrient export. Which leads me to your next question.
Softs are not LPS or SPS. As you say LPS and SPS are hard corals. The reason, I think, that Lindsay runs SPS with Carbon but not with LPS is because SPS live in very low nutient enviroments on the reef whereas LPS corals live more on the back reef and lagoons where nutrients are higher. Carbon reduces nurients and so satisfies the needs of SPS but may strip out too much nutrients for LPS. In my system I run Carbon 24/7 but I cant keep my nutrients as low as lindsay can, so I need to! All comes with experiance!
Another thing about live rock, and will save you a fair bit is that live rock works on surface area and not weight. With your rock , try to make a large open structure so that water can flow around as much of the individual pieces of rock as possible. This will mean that you wont be able to put as much rock as the 'recommended' amount would suggest. I think the recommended amount is about a kilo per gallon(?) which would mean that you would creat a 'wall' of rock. This has very little open surface arear to the rock, and defeats the object. With a lot less rock you can have a lot more exposed surface area. With some of the money you save buy your self some good flow pumps like the tunze or the cheaper seio pumps. Basically the more flow you have the better the rock will work.
In terms of upgrades for full reef systems include calcium reactors, powerful lighting systems and sumps. Sumps are great and well worth considering. These will give you more volume, somewhere to hide all the equipment and more methods of nutrient export such as Deep sand Beds, Algae scrubbers, dark zones, refugiums etc (all good things to learn!). Corals need very good nutrient export. Which leads me to your next question.
Softs are not LPS or SPS. As you say LPS and SPS are hard corals. The reason, I think, that Lindsay runs SPS with Carbon but not with LPS is because SPS live in very low nutient enviroments on the reef whereas LPS corals live more on the back reef and lagoons where nutrients are higher. Carbon reduces nurients and so satisfies the needs of SPS but may strip out too much nutrients for LPS. In my system I run Carbon 24/7 but I cant keep my nutrients as low as lindsay can, so I need to! All comes with experiance!
#9
heady2010
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Posted 20 July 2010 - 08:43 PM
Ok thanks, was thinking of making 2 mountains of rock anyway as opposed to a big wall so that works out, how much l/r would you recommend for this bearing in mind 1/4 will be ocean rock? With the carbon situation, is it something that you can get a test kit for and play it by ear, its just ill only be keeping soft corals and lps which you said may have it nutrients stripped out if carbon is present? would it be best just to not have any at all? im so confused! lol
#10
Blacktip
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Posted 23 July 2010 - 06:56 AM
I would add as much rock as you need to make your display and leave it at that but do make sure you have plenty of flow around your rock.
Dont worry too much about your Carbon. I would deffinitly use it. As a beginner you will almost certainly have too much nutrients and so the carbon will be a big help to you regardless of what corals you want to keep eventually. Like I said I keep Soft's LPS and SPS and run carbon 24/7.
Dont worry too much about your Carbon. I would deffinitly use it. As a beginner you will almost certainly have too much nutrients and so the carbon will be a big help to you regardless of what corals you want to keep eventually. Like I said I keep Soft's LPS and SPS and run carbon 24/7.
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