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Kalk stirrers


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#1 jason@jasonsaquatics

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 10:07 AM

I remember back in the day when Kalk stirrers were the big thing for adding calcium to your systems but over time a lot of reefers stopped using them with the news that they bind and lock in Phosphates .
It was a pitty as they were an easy and cheap way of adding calcium to a system.

My question is now we have filter methods like the bio pearls will the Pearls keep the phosphates at bay so they dont get a chance to get bound up , or will it be a case that if there locked in the system there stay locked in and not even the pearls can help solve this

If they can help or stop this do you think your see a return of the kalk stirrer to a lot of systems ?

jas
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#2 lindsay

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 10:31 AM

I think binding phosphate is a possibility but most are running phosphate media reactors which are more efficient at removing phosphate before it can become bound,the other question i have is any bound phosphate while using Kalk would need to become unbound when stopping Kalk,what triggers this?is it a ph drop and if so would it mean a ph as low as what a calcium reactor runs ie in the 6 to 7 ph levels?.
If this is the case i would have thought a ph that low would be a dissaster for the system anyway.
I think its worth looking at tanks overseas who still seem to run kalk alongside calcium reactors with no worries about bound phosphates,a good idea would be to add those tanks below?.

#3 dave14

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 10:55 AM

Well I've started dosing 2 ltrs of kalk overnight, one to keep ph more stable overnight, and also to help me maintain my kh and calc levels without running the reactor 24/7.
So far so good, but it's only been 5 days

ps if anyone has an old kalk stirrer that they don't want or even some acrylic tube that I can use to make one let me know :)
mixing it manually is a PITA

#4 jason@jasonsaquatics

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 11:30 AM

Yes there are many upsides for running Kalk like theres a downside, one being bound phosphates but will the process of the bio pearls use of phosphates also use the bound phosphates as part of there process with the nitrates or is it a case that once bound there bound unless you take off the Kalk stirrer or you have dangerous Ph swing .

Phosphate media is a great way of removing Phosphates as we all know but once the phosphates are bound in the system they dont seem to pull them out, but if the Bio pearls do still use the bound phosphates then this could deam the bound phosphates as a possible cured problem if running bio medias

Views guys ?


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#5 dojo

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:06 AM

In the risk of looking stupid chaps please fully explain the terms bound and unbound in the context of phosphate in reef aquaria at this point I don't understand this thread so well. Surely if you can get a reading on a test kit then there's phosphate in the water column and so available to extraction media like pearls and alike no?

#6 lindsay

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:19 AM

In the risk of looking stupid chaps please fully explain the terms bound and unbound in the context of phosphate in reef aquaria at this point I don't understand this thread so well. Surely if you can get a reading on a test kit then there's phosphate in the water column and so available to extraction media like pearls and alike no?

Hi m8,bound phosphate is phosphate that is no longer likely to be in the water colum but bound up by in this case Kalk,ie lime,it may be still in the system but is locked in so it could be a case that you would not see a reading of the phosphate while bound by the Kalk until the phosphate starts to dissolve out of its bound in form then in this case phosphate readings would start to rise.There is a small mention about it in the lime section in the link below.


http://www.advanceda...003/2/chemistry

#7 karnivor

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 12:06 PM

For the life of me, i really cannot see any advantages to using kalk in any form at all these days, unless you have a very lightly loaded tank.
It provides so little Calcium to the system that with the success we get with growing corals these days, kalk addition quickly runs out of legs.

A much better option is manual balling, if you want to keep expense down. The only disadvantage to this method is that it produces unwanted salt as part of the reaction, but the quantities produced can be beneficial as well as counterproductive.

What many people don't click with, is the fact that using a skimmer in a system uses salt, because each time you empty the cup, you throw salt water away and replace it with unsalted water via top-up. So, whether you use balling or not, your salinity isn't stable anyway. With balling however, the move is slightly in the positive direction and can be corrected if needed, at water change time, thus slightly reducing the amount of salt you use.

Balling using Sodium Carbonate light (via peri) or Bio-alk for manual dosing will still have the effect of keeping PH levels raised.

Tony.
Why do left-over nuts never match left-over bolts?

#8 lindsay

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 04:32 PM

NO NO NO lol

Just to let you know tony is in the shop now and admits hes wrong

#9 jason@jasonsaquatics

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 07:16 PM

i agree Lindsay ,,it was glad to see tony admit he was wrong about Kalk Stirrers lol


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#10 john h

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 09:37 PM

with my very limited chemistry knowledge within reef keeping wouldnt it be that if you get the phosphates down before useing kalk and then start adding it there will not be much/any to be bound up once the pearls and any other removal media have had their cut,so as long as the housekeeping is maintained and regular water changes etc wouldnt it take a hell of a long time to become a worry?
i used to dose kalk with a pumped reactor but the impellors just wore out too quick
but when i stopped i saw no difference in water or livestock quality.
john

#11 karnivor

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 09:43 PM

Ignore those two cornish bumkins above, I admitted no such thing. :threatenlumber:

Nice havin a chat though, its been a while.
Why do left-over nuts never match left-over bolts?

#12 karnivor

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 09:53 PM

For all you Ph/carbonate geeks out there, get your teeth into this, then explain it to me ;)
http://www.chem1.com.../pdf/c3carb.pdf

Tony.
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#13 jason@jasonsaquatics

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:04 PM

lol Was good to catch up today tony ,,will give you a bell next week to see how things are

Happy new year m8

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#14 lindsay

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:21 PM

NO NO NO lol

Just to let you know tony is in the shop now and admits hes wrong

Odd i don't remember doing this post,JASON?..

#15 lindsay

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:58 PM

Kalk as a calcium and dkh buffer,yeah i would have to agree with Tony it has its limits,in most cases in the past when running Kalk it fell behind when fully stocked,when adding over 2 gallons of top up with kalk to the 4ft by 4ft sps tank it fell behind and also fell behind with 2 stirrers on the 8ft tank when well stocked which took us to the use of a calcium reactor.
This being fact why a fresh look at Kalk,for me its a case of down time at night for the calcium reactor and the chance to still add a form of calcium and dkh buffering that also has one other element to it which is to buffer the ph,for many this is the reason for the down time at night with regards to their calcium reactors.
We all see a average ph when running a calcium reactor by day but this tends to drop by night even if you can afford to turn off the calcium reactor so to slightly raise the ph level by night may also help the day time ph while the calcium reactor is running.
This seems to be a lost method here in the uk but over seas it is still seen as the norm when running a calcium reactor in many cases,have they got it wrong or is it lack of effort on our part?.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to add some tank threads that still use kalk and if listed why they like to use it.

Your above link looks good tony i will take a look when it is not so late lol,was good talking today m8.




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